Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 So welcome to another installment of Unraveling Religion. Uh, I'm your host, Joel Lesses, and I'm here with Dr. Abbu Laish. And, uh, we are sitting in Toronto, the University of Toronto. And, uh, I came for a conversation from Rochester with Dr. Abbu Laish. And, um, we were just speaking before the show. And, um, the thought arose to maybe offer an invocation for our conversation would, would you offer an invocation for our conversation?
Speaker 1 00:00:31 Of course. We need to start everything <affirmative> in the name of God, and to be grateful to our creator who brings people together, who give us God. Who is the most generous, most merciful, and the most forgiver. I thank God all of the time, every day I wake up to have a new day, a new opportunities to be surrounded with my children who earn my life, and they give me, give me life. Thanks God. The giver, the supporter, the one who hears when others are deaf, the one who is watching us when others are replied. I thank God and I fear God, and I count on God that he is close to us. The more we approach God, the more he approaches us. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we need all of the time to remember and to think and to see God in our words, in our deeds, in our life.
Speaker 0 00:02:22 Well, thank you for that, Dr. Abash. Uh, what brought me here actually today to see you, uh, was I think a calling. It was a calling, an inner calling, like an intuitive calling to connect. And, uh, I'm at once fascinated by the seemingly random nature of life itself in the physical plane. And yet underneath it, I know that there's a tremendous harmony, a tremendous beauty of a tremendous perfection. And, um, so when I, I had tried to attempt to connect with you prior, I lost my way. I, I wasn't able to to do it. And, um, so today I'm very grateful, um, for this opportunity. And, um, I, I know that, uh, your, your book, uh, I shall Not Hate, uh, uh, comes from, um, experiences which are, uh, both painful and valuable and, and wisdom. Is there anything that you'd like to say about, uh, your work these days?
Speaker 1 00:03:31 These days in the whole of my life, because as a human being, God created us and we need to have a sense of purpose of our existence and to ask why are we here? What are we doing? Wink. And that we all were created from Adam and Eve and became nations and the tribes For what? To know each other. Yeah. And when we speak about knowing, what do we mean by the word knowing <laugh>, it's not just to know the name, the face, the profession, the age. It's to show passion. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, respect, understanding, and valuing the hu the human being. And to work together, to build, to construct, and to give hope. And that we are one. So as a medical doctor, I value human life because a human being is the most holy creator by God. And the human life is the most British thing in the universe.
Speaker 0 00:05:16 I know that there is a teaching that is shared in Islam and in Judaism, and that is whoever saves one life, it is as if they've saved the entire world.
Speaker 1 00:05:28 Yeah. Of course. That's why all faith is Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. They came with messages to save the humanity. Yeah. To free humanity from slavery. Yeah. From darkness to light. Yeah. So we need to practice these values and to avoid manipulation and misuse of the religion for political reasons. You
Speaker 0 00:06:03 Are so right. I could not agree more.
Speaker 1 00:06:06 So we need to give the right value and faith can bridge between people when they understand it and they practice it in the right way. That it came to the prophets and to the messengers.
Speaker 0 00:06:20 Yeah. They're the messengers. Were only articulating an ethic that exists in the ethereal that was to be brought into this world. And that is shared in humankind.
Speaker 1 00:06:29 So there is no pro, there is no problems in the religions or faith is, or with messengers. No, the problem is in the people themselves. It's in the, in the political leaders who are trying to manipulate and to politicize the religion for political agenda. Right. So we need to avoid that or to be trapped in it. As a Muslim, I can't be Muslim if I don't believe in Judaism. Anti Christianity. Yes. When I mention Moses, I should say Moses, peace, P upon him. Jesus, peace, P upon him, Mary, peace, P upon her. All of the prophets. Yeah. All of the messengers. And that they came with the common, unified, human and hopeful message to this world.
Speaker 0 00:07:24 Islam is a recognition of all the world's prophets, all the world's teachers that Islam believes in. All, all of them. All of them. And not, not Christianity, and not Judaism do this.
Speaker 1 00:07:38 And even Islam, it respects others religions. And it says you have your own religion. I have my own religion. Whatever you want to eat, you can eat it. Yeah. Whatever you want. But the most important, how do you treat me in life? Yeah. And I am not here as a Muslim or as a human being to judge people. God will judge us. That's all. Yeah. And God is the most mercy fault
Speaker 0 00:08:05 And patient,
Speaker 1 00:08:06 <laugh> and patient and tolerant. Unkind and forgiver. Yeah. We as a human being, we don't forgive. No. We are not mercy with each other. Yeah. We are not kind with each other. Yeah. So we need to practice these values. God is the most generous and loving. So we need to take part of these values and to practice them. And that's the religion. The religion is not about a praying only. It's about how you treat your human fellow
Speaker 0 00:08:39 So much more so Dr. Alays than the names that we call one another, either good or bad is the actions that we imbue in this world, the love that we bring into this world. It is just, it is the fact. And if we wonder how we will be judged, we will not be by anything other than the intentions and actions of our heart.
Speaker 1 00:08:54 Heart. We need to learn and to practice and to live our life by our faith is yeah. That's what is needed. But most of the time the people, they don't or they judge without knowledge, without knowing from ignorance. We need to be aware of what do we do. Yeah. And if we have a good word to say it, if we don't have that good word, don't say the bad one. It's very harmful. It can be destructive. It provokes anger, it provokes poison, it to provokes hatred and it divides. So we need to be selective and to be kind in selecting the right word. Yeah. In Islam it says <unk> call people with wisdom, with kind words, with courageous, good deeds. Yeah. And if you wear hard hearted, yeah. No one will follow you. So we need to be lenient and kind. Yeah. With each other.
Speaker 0 00:09:58 Why wouldn't we be? Why wouldn't
Speaker 1 00:10:00 We be because of the ignorance. This is number one of ourselves and of others.
Speaker 0 00:10:06 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:10:08 So
Speaker 0 00:10:08 First and fear, we are
Speaker 1 00:10:10 Fearful, but fear is used as mean. Fear mongering is used these days. Yes. And fear as a result of incitement, which is manipulated by many political leaders. Yeah. Incitement leads to hatred. And this will lead to violence. Yeah. And divide. Yes. We need the people to reconcile number one, reconcile with God. Yeah. With the creator. Reconcile with yourself to know yourself. Once you started this process of reconciliation with God and yourself, then it'll be easy to reconcile with each other. So we need to be honest with ourselves. We need to see the truth, the light. Ignorance is darkness and the knowledge and education is the light, the right education.
Speaker 0 00:10:57 Will you speak for a minute about Daughters for Life Foundation?
Speaker 1 00:11:01 Yeah. Daughters for Life Foundation is the foundation which I established in memory of my daughter's <unk> my area, and my niece. No. Yeah. Because after they were killed, when the Israeli, my house, some friend, they said to me, people will forget. But I ask, am I going to forget my daughter? They are part of me. They live with me, they move with me. And I am accountable only and just only to God and to my daughters. What can I do? And how can I take responsibility of a transforming this tragedy into something positive, into something hopeful to inspire the people. Because violence can't be dealt with violence. Hatred is not with hatred. Anger is not with anger. There is another alternative way. It's wisdom, it's education, and to spread hope. And that's what taught us for life. To give a good example, that we created life from death and we gave hope from pain and suffering. And that's, it's in our hands. Nothing is impossible. God is there to give us and to support us and to move forward. So it's dedicated for education of girls and young women from the Middle East.
Speaker 0 00:12:18 The evolution of humankind will come through the feminine.
Speaker 1 00:12:21 Of course, women are the main pillar of, of any community. Women who give life. Yeah. They nurture life. I fully believe in women's role and potential, as I said it before, we were created from Adam and Eve equal. So we need to live as equal, and we are not competing with each other. We are complimenting and supporting. Imagine this world without women or without men. So we need to live and to work together jointly.
Speaker 0 00:12:55 Reciprocity.
Speaker 1 00:12:56 Yeah. That's what is important. And to give women the right means and the right opportunity to practice the role. I am confident they will make the world a better one. Because achieving a healthy, safe, peaceful, stable, unsustainable, free world is the duty and function of women's education and role. In addition to that, the support of men, we need to overcome this discrimination that we need to work together. Yeah. That's why Daughters for Life is there to support and to give hope, and to spread a message of hope that tragedies are not the end of our life. I don't think that there is any evil actor from God. No. God always gives good things. Yep. But there are things happening in our life, and in our short term judgment about these events, we think of it as bad, but later on we realize it meant to be by God for good. You may dislike something and later on to realize it was for good and you may like something, but later on to realize it wasn't good. If I am traveling and then the flight was canceled, I may feel upset. Why not? To see that there's something positive in it. Not to go, not to travel, to spend time with my family, with my children, with my friends, or something wrong to happen to me there. Yeah. While they're flying, we need to see the positive. And that's always, God.
Speaker 0 00:14:26 May I ask you, Dr. Abla, you've just transcended, uh, some situations, the loss of your three daughters and niece, your wife, previously before, not too long. When I was coming to understand your experiences, I wanted to know practically, what is your, is there a practice? How have you come to this place of like understanding and transforming the suffering that you've seen and experienced into, is there a practice? Is there, is there a meditation? Is there a prayer? Is it a combination? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Speaker 1 00:15:07 What helps me in my life, I am a person of faith. Faith helps me a lot. I fear God. I count on God. And when there is anything to happen and I need, I direct my faith to God. Yeah. Through prayer, through reading Quran. And that's the most important in my life. Yeah. And I know God will never leave us to collapse and the life we are tested, but the most, and the more difficult the test is. Yeah. The more the reward will be. Patience is not a weakness. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the strength to be patient. So God is there. The more you pass this tests, the more you are close to God. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:15:49 The cultivation of gratitude in our heart for what we have so often in especially Western culture, especially in, in, in, from where I come from, we so rarely see what we have. We're always looking for, um, something else or what is not right before us. Like what is right before us is what is a gift. It is a gift. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:16:11 It's a gifter from God. And by the end of the day, we are born, we live and we have to leave.
Speaker 0 00:16:16 Each day is a preparation for the greater lifetime
Speaker 1 00:16:19 Too. I want to meet grateful to God for what he gave me. Yeah. And what he took of from me. Yeah. Because even what he took of from me, he kept it for me, for good cause and to save others' lives.
Speaker 0 00:16:31 I mean, the impact of your, the impact, how everything happened that fateful day in your response, who else? He's created you for this reason and purpose.
Speaker 1 00:16:42 Yeah. That's why the second day of the tragedy of the killing of my daughters, yeah. It put an end to the war against innocent people and it saved others' lives.
Speaker 0 00:16:54 Untold numbers. Untold numbers. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:16:57 And to give the human face to the people. Yeah. So everything, as I said, everything is for good.
Speaker 0 00:17:04 It is a strong, strong way. And
Speaker 1 00:17:07 It's,
Speaker 0 00:17:08 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:17:08 It's life. You know? Of course it's the most painful to see someone, to see his beloved daughters. Yeah. Becoming bars drowning in their repli, can't recognize them. But at that moment, I directed my face to God and I said, always, I asked and appeal to God. Oh God, all Lord. And I am sure he was there to support and to give me the strength, the patience, the wisdom to manage the situation.
Speaker 0 00:17:41 As you said before, it is sheer ignorance and fallacy to think that any kind of incursion, any kind of aggression, any kind of trying to tame a people through violence or aggression or coercion is wrong. It cannot be right. And it's only, it's myopic and it is wrong morally and ethically. And, uh, and no uncertain terms. There is no such thing as, you know, they, they throw around in the term, they turn, they all nations do this, and people do this. It is a, it is a, it is a, an element of our psychology, which we need to work with. But, um, you know, and when we use the term war, then it seems to justifi justify certain kinds of behaviors which are never justifiable. There's no such thing as collateral that is, um, that is a label used to make people feel better. And, uh, in no uncertain terms, the, the, all the prophets that, that Islam and, uh, Bahai recognize, say that it is only through patience and wisdom and tolerance that people grow in love.
Speaker 1 00:18:45 Yeah. And that's, when you speak about war, it's easy to have war. It's easy to declare it. But we need to think of the consequences of war, the long-lasting wounds, the human lives, the hatred, the anger, the divide. It creates war. There is no victory in war.
Speaker 0 00:19:08 There's, there is no victory or victory. Anyone with anyone.
Speaker 1 00:19:12 No. So there is another way. War is the mean of the week.
Speaker 0 00:19:17 The small mind. The small mind.
Speaker 1 00:19:19 We need to overcome our arrogance, our ego. And that's what God gave us to be humbled.
Speaker 0 00:19:27 Humility. Humility.
Speaker 1 00:19:28 Humility.
Speaker 0 00:19:29 Yeah. Humility doesn't
Speaker 1 00:19:31 Win. And to forgive Yeah. Others. And to give hand to others. If someone to do something wrong to others, not to get revenge, we need to endure patiently. And the reward will be much higher from God. And that's what is needed to believe and to have the faith.
Speaker 0 00:19:49 I agree with you. I agree with you, Dr. Absh. So Dr. Absh, where do you see, where do you see, where would you like to see the relationship in the Middle East? Obviously we want to, we, we want see it in a certain direction. And we've spoken about how that can be the case.
Speaker 1 00:20:07 I want to see the situation in the relation ship in the Middle East, which is part of the world. Yeah. We want to see the relation between nations in our world as a human, that we live in a small world. Yeah. And no one in our world is far from risk. Any harm in any part of the world, it is just others will suffer as a result of what is happening. Because we see it, we watch it, or it approaches us. For me, the human family in this world, like the human being, the unit structure of the human being is the cell. If one cell to suffer in the human body, the whole body will suffer. So we need to work together, see the, what we call the other Yes. Is not the other. It's about me. And we need all to be free, to be treated as a human, as equal a human beings. And that human life is the most precious and the blessed gift from God. And no one. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:21:13 I
Speaker 1 00:21:14 Agree. And no one should be killed in order to get his or her freedom. So the Middle East is part of the world, not to take it in isolation from what is happening in the world, or to blame the religion or the people there. We need to take responsibility All
Speaker 0 00:21:31 I
Speaker 1 00:21:32 Agree with you all. And that's the biggest challenge in our world. Yeah. Is individual responsibility. Yeah. In particular, the politicians in our world. Yeah. They export their failures, their ego to use the military means, which will never put an end. I want these political leaders to think thousands of times before saying a bad word. Yeah. Or starting a war against other nations. What legacy do they want to leave behind? And to zoom in to think of the impact of these decisions. Yeah. So the Middle East, I see it's a future, it's a relation, it's part of the world's relation that no one in this world is safe, is a free, is secure or healthy or in peace as long as others are not. So we need to work on the collective human health piece. Security and the freedom for all internationalization of a freedom socialization Yes. Of the human relationships. Yep. Yep. Harmonizations
Speaker 0 00:22:39 Connecting is humans. We are
Speaker 1 00:22:41 Humans and connectedness between people.
Speaker 0 00:22:44 I do not understand why there is not infrastructure in schools and loans for micro-businesses, for individuals who, I mean, there are resources, but the resources are not made available for things that just make common sense.
Speaker 1 00:23:00 Middle East is the Middle East. Yeah. It's not Palestine or Israel. Yeah. The Middle East. More than 20 countries.
Speaker 0 00:23:10 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:23:11 In the Middle East. And the Middle East is connected to the world. But what are you talking is about the Palestinian Israeli conflict.
Speaker 0 00:23:19 In part, we could use it as a case study, a contextual case study for,
Speaker 1 00:23:22 But there are many other cases, the situation between Palestinians and Israelis, what you said about the infrastructure, and these you refer to which place in this,
Speaker 0 00:23:35 Well, especially Gaza.
Speaker 1 00:23:37 Why did you ask why they don't have infrastructure?
Speaker 0 00:23:41 No, I mean, I can have, I asked why? I've tried to figure out in my mind why
Speaker 1 00:23:48 I've not asked. What do you think asked
Speaker 0 00:23:49 Why? I mean, I think it boils down to, uh, uh, you know, when we began the show, we said, uh, we, we are, we have great commonality, so much greater commonality. But individuals or people see difference. They see differences. And people are fearful of differences in politicians, fear monger the differences into us and them. And so I think as we begin to see the universal in one another, uh, and as political leaders begin to see the universal in each other, that, uh, the potential that is never examined because of, of fear, uh, it has always been a certain kind of way. And to deviate from that way is, uh, scary and problematic. Who knows what will happen. It can't be much worse than what has
Speaker 1 00:24:38 No, but what you said, you know about the infrastructure. Infrastructure. Yeah. Why?
Speaker 0 00:24:41 First of all, I know that from the little that I know, uh, the com, the quantity of just water in roads, in schools,
Speaker 1 00:24:50 Uh, are vital needs
Speaker 0 00:24:52 Are vi they're human. They're basic human
Speaker 1 00:24:54 Rights. But by why they don't have it,
Speaker 0 00:24:56 The resources are not provided by people who could provide the resources. I think that it, what needs to be provided, what must be provided for the security and comfort and stability of all is not provided. It just makes common sense. So, I don't know, uh, the, um, day-to-day reasons why this isn't the case.
Speaker 1 00:25:18 What is the problem in the Middle East? What is the challenge?
Speaker 0 00:25:23 Uh, answer you very honestly,
Speaker 1 00:25:25 What is the challenge now these days between Palestinians?
Speaker 0 00:25:29 Well, I think, I think I could, I mean, from my vantage point of what I understand, it is psychology. It is psychology
Speaker 1 00:25:36 As a result of what
Speaker 0 00:25:38 It is, a result of the misuse or the, the fanning of ignorance in individuals. Because if you come to Koran or you come to Torah,
Speaker 1 00:25:46 Yes.
Speaker 0 00:25:48 What you bring to that is what you see. It's not that there's something wrong or evil in the text. What you bring to it is what you see. So if you see hate in that book, and it could be found in either book, or you could see great teachings of universality, mysticism of, uh, the, the esoteric. If you have that in you, or you want to awaken that in you, you can find that in that book too. So really, to me, religion is about psychology. It's about the psychology of the individual. Changing the collective
Speaker 1 00:26:19 Religion is about the day, the day-to-day life. Yeah. It's not about psychology. Also it's about the behavior, about the context, about the lifestyle, about the vital needs, about about religion, how you practice it, how you reflect, how you understand it. Religion is very helpful and very positive. Oh, yeah. But sometime the psychology, we play with it and to create fear mongering. Yeah. And that fear mongering is psychology. Yep. Not, but the facts on the ground are manmade.
Speaker 0 00:26:47 I, I agree with you. Let me clarify. When I say psychology, I mean the determinant of determination of like priority of like what we value, how we act, what we act on is it is in a sense the, the, the, the birthplace of it is a, is a, is a kind of like, it's a spark of like, what is Devon us that gets into the psyche and psychology and transmuted and understood. So if we, I, I believe that if we, we could alter or change or open our psychology to, um, you know, we spoke of like the diminishment of the ego. Yes. If we could begin to do that, then we begin to see the divine in
Speaker 1 00:27:24 One another. So for example, the Palestinians and Yeah. Where they were born equal or not.
Speaker 0 00:27:30 No.
Speaker 1 00:27:31 Why? Well,
Speaker 0 00:27:32 They,
Speaker 1 00:27:33 From God, from the moment they were born, they were born. Of course they are. And they were born equal. Yeah. And they have to run a normal free equal life. Yeah. What happens later after they are born,
Speaker 0 00:27:47 They are socialized.
Speaker 1 00:27:49 What, what creates the gap between them? Is there any gap between them?
Speaker 0 00:27:52 There's tremendous gap. There
Speaker 1 00:27:54 Is In what way?
Speaker 0 00:27:55 So I'm so glad you asked. Uh, socialization resources, culture influences, uh, lineage, parents, teachers, um, the basic infrastructure, the environment in which we surround ourselves in influences how we perceive and what we think. Any human being put, put in any either difficult or what we call beneficial environment will respond to that environment. It's
Speaker 1 00:28:24 Only just, so, it's the environment which shapes the environment, which shapes and the context of life in which we live shapes our behaviors. Yes,
Speaker 0 00:28:33 Of
Speaker 1 00:28:33 Course. So, uh, but
Speaker 0 00:28:35 Not, not mostly, but not totally. Because there are
Speaker 1 00:28:39 Elements of Yeah, of course there are other elements. I know that. But it's important, the environment in which someone to live and someone who is suffering on daily basis deprived over freedom. What do you expect from him or her?
Speaker 0 00:28:55 I god. If people will meet what you expect from them. So if you expect,
Speaker 1 00:28:59 So don't expect from someone who is screaming from labor pain to be silent.
Speaker 0 00:29:06 Exactly. I agree with you.
Speaker 1 00:29:08 <laugh> a woman in labor, Bain who is screaming and then to say that because she's screaming, she's violent. Yeah. She's shouting. I agree with you. I think I am the one who is violent and don't have any sense of a humanity to understand that women, which is important. So the situation in the Middle East where the Palestinians and the Zales, they are living there. And of course Palestinians and the Zais are not equal. One is powerful.
Speaker 0 00:29:42 There's a power differential. There's
Speaker 1 00:29:44 A power. One is occupier. Yep. One is occupied. Yes,
Speaker 0 00:29:48 This
Speaker 1 00:29:48 Is true. One is <unk> and the other are abre. But both at the same time, they're occupied, the Israelis are occupied with their fears, with their ego, with their narrative. Anti Palestinians are occupied on daily basis, on the ground by the Israeli defense forces the land and everything. Yeah. So how can we help them to be free to equalize between them? This is the most important thing you can't solve and problem without equalization and fixing this problem,
Speaker 0 00:30:25 You must acknowledge it. It is there. First you must acknowledge
Speaker 1 00:30:29 It. It's there first. Of course. That's the truth. And then you move forward. That's right. To treat with the issue of reconciliation or what I call it rehabilitation. Yep. To rehabilitate the relationship. So the Palestinian suffering should be understood. It's not isolated and separate from the Israelis to understand it and to take it that the Palestinian suffering is from the Israeli suffering. The Palestinians freedom is from the Israeli freedom. A freedom is from the Palestinians freedom. But if thek to think in isolation from what is happening with their neighbors, it's not going to help
Speaker 0 00:31:10 In the to says we were strangers in a strange land. How do we treat the widow of the orphan? In the stranger?
Speaker 1 00:31:15 Even in Islam, it says, it recommends to take care of whom, of your neighbor, the closest neighbor. And they say to many friends, your closest neighbor who are the Palestinians are much better to you than your father, brother who is in other places. And you need also from the international community to help the enablers to be fair mediators for the benefit of both. Not to be biased with one side or the other. I say it. We need to embrace and to bush embrace for the good things and bush against the bad things from anyone. Because no one is angel. No one is a prophet in this world. We are a human being. We make mistakes. But not support your brother or your sister if he was ob, oppressor or abreast
Speaker 0 00:32:15 To tell the truth. To tell the truth, the oppressor. Yes. And to raise the hand of the oppress. Excellent. Thats
Speaker 1 00:32:20 What is needed. Yeah. So we need to understand it. Life can be continued in this way. The only way to admit, to acknowledge and to see the other human face. Yeah. That he is not different from me. It takes more and to to be tolerant. Yeah. With others. Tolerant in being curious to know who is the other, what we call the other, to interact, to integrate, not to be isolated. Right. I am here in Canada. I have to integrate. Yeah. From by, by my choice. I game to integrate here as a zine, as a Canadian, as a human, not to be isolated or I am much better than other groups. I am equal to other groups. And I am similar to other groups. And this diversity and the differences are not for bad, but they are okay for good.
Speaker 0 00:33:22 And, and what you say is all because we spoke about humility. Right. Why is, why is humility such a profound teaching? It is truth. It is seeing things truthfully. If we do not see things truthfully, then we cannot work or change anything. So to say that like humility is important isn't really the point. The point is like, what is true? What is truth? What is truth? You know?
Speaker 1 00:33:48 True. No one knows the truth as the people themselves. Yeah. Ask your heart. Ask your soul inside <affirmative>, when we make mistakes, yeah. We feel it. We know it. We know,
Speaker 1 00:34:05 We know it. Maybe because of the fear, we don't admit it. Yeah. So ask your heart. Ask your soul. Look inside and we can see and seek the truth. Yeah. So truth, as Jesus said, seek the truth and the truth frees you. Yeah. You can be free with the truth. Yeah. So the truth is there. And if we don't find it, we need to seek it to find the evidence, to find the signals for the truth. The truth is about the true diagnosis. The right diagnosis. Right. Because once we have the right diagnosis, we can sit up the right treatment.
Speaker 0 00:34:52 Yeah. And then recovery and healing is possible.
Speaker 1 00:34:55 Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. But if we don't know the diagnosis, we don't know the disease. Yeah. Then the patient will suffer. The doctor will continue to waste and to work hard till we find the truth.
Speaker 0 00:35:09 I mean, in a sense it's only aah that, uh, heals. We just find the diagnosis and we put in place the treatment. Aah does everything else, but
Speaker 1 00:35:18 Aah is there to guide us. As I said, the more we seek the truth, God will show us the truth and the truth. That we are human, we are equal, and we are created not to torture, to abreast toy each other. No. But to collaborate. Yeah. To work together. Yeah. To help each other. Yeah. And to give hand
Speaker 0 00:35:44 Together as brothers going from
Speaker 1 00:35:46 Strength to strength. Yeah. Brotherhood, family.
Speaker 0 00:35:48 Dr. Absh, I'm so appreciative of your time. Are you, are you feeling like you'd like to say anything else or,
Speaker 1 00:35:55 Uh, thank you so, so much. Can say all of the time, the people that there is hope in this world. Don't lose hope in God's mercy. Don't be in despair. God's mercy is a great, and don't blame others. Don't wait for others to take action. Start by yourself. God will never change what is in people till we start to change what is inside ourselves. I encourage the people to look around, to look inside, to ask,
Speaker 0 00:36:27 Not to be afraid. To explore.
Speaker 1 00:36:28 To learn. Yeah. To interact. Yeah. To avoid these and to smash them. These psychological mental barriers which were created there between us, they're artificial barriers and it's easy to smash them. We need to start to know each other. The more we approach each other, the more we know each other, the easier to solve the challenges. And we will find a way to solve our world problems and to make the world a better human. A human. When
Speaker 0 00:37:13 It is the only way,
Speaker 1 00:37:14 Because I say if either we sync together or we live together, it cannot be another way. We live and ride one boat. Yeah. And we must work together to protect it. Yep.
Speaker 0 00:37:26 This
Speaker 1 00:37:27 Is one boat without a bridge us. Yep. Without thinking of ourselves to think as a collective. Right.
Speaker 0 00:37:35 Well, in, in working to begin with, to work with those, to work with our prejudice, to open to like see, yes, I have this in me. What can I do about it? How do I make it better? How do I eliminate and dissolve it so that I see a human being before me?
Speaker 1 00:37:50 Start with a small act. Do something. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:37:53 Something kind. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:37:55 Yeah. Visit a patient at the hospital. Yeah. Give hand to someone. Give a smile. Yes. Say a nice word to someone. Yeah. Be nice with your parents. Yeah. With your neighbors. Start with your own community.
Speaker 0 00:38:11 I'd like to close with this poem from a Native American poet. Her name is Joy Hark, and she's a musician. She's a playwright, she's a poet. And it's called the Eagle Poem. Eagle poem. It goes like this, Dr. Aalj, to pray. You open your whole self, to sky, to earth, to sun, to moon, to one whole voice that is you. And know that there is more that you can't see, can't hear, can't know. Except in moments steadily growing and in languages that aren't always sound, but other circles of motion like eagle. That Sunday morning over Salt River circled in blue sky and wind swept our hearts clean with sacred wings. We see, you see ourselves and know that we must take the utmost care and kindness in all things. Breathe in knowing we are made of all this. And breathe. Knowing we are truly blessed because we were born and die. Soon within a true circle of motion, like eagle rounding out the morning inside us, we pray that it be done in beauty and beauty. Dr. Abj, thank you so much for today.
Speaker 1 00:39:39 I appreciate It's much pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much.
